Writings

Interview by Ignacio Rodríguez of Rubén Feldman González

Buenos Aires, 8th November 2009.
 
Ignacio Rodriguez: It’s the 8th of November 2009, we are in Buenos Aires with Doctor Rubén Feldman González, who has come here to give an Introductory Workshop on Holokinetic Psychology.
Before starting, I would like to know a little bit about you, doctor. Basically, who you are.
 
Rubén Feldman González: Yes, what can I tell you? I am a medical doctor who has discovered something of enormous value, which is Unitary Perception, and I am trying to disseminate that fact, which is a brain function, all over the planet. And it is what I have been doing, for more than thirty years with great pleasure. I think that essentially we can sum up what I do like that. Yes.
 
IR: Can you tell us what Holokinetic Psychology is?
 
RFG: To be exact, Unitary Perception is the fundamental element of Holokinetic Psychology. The name that it took as a sort of honor to David Bohm, who mathematically formulated the concept of Holokinesis in 1986 and which changes or better said, completes the conception of time to the point where the foundation of a new psychology is needed, with that principle of the comprehension of the totality of time, something which did not exist before 1986.
 
Therefore, I sometimes say, to the distaste of those who listen, that it is important not to mix Holokinetic Psychology, which possesses a complete conception of time, with the previous psychologies – and it is calculated that there are 34 at this moment according to the European Academy of Psychology, 34 psychologies that have a fragmentary conception of time. And for that reason I say do not mix, not out of contempt, but because of this fundamental element which is time.
This means that a simple but very polished language has to be used, to be able to define this non-imaginary life, in a language that is adequate for the new conception of time, that the other previous psychologies do not have.
 
IR: Yes, fine. This new conception of time, can it be explained in summary?
 
RFG: Well, Bohm said that there is a movement from here to here and that Holokinesis is in fact the movement from here to here between the two orders of the material, energetic and mental universe.
Bohm introduces the paradox of movement in Physics and that completes the notion of time.
This movement from here to here, (Holokinesis) gives time the nature of being irrelevant. This movement from here to here makes time irrelevant and then, of course, this conception of time complements the absolute conception of time of Newton and the relative conception of time of Einstein. Yes.
 
IR: As I understand it, you are saying that there is a science up to Bohm and a science after Bohm.
 
RFG: Absolutely yes.
 
IR: Let’s say, because of his discoveries, advances if you like.
 
RFG: That’s it.
 
IR: And that it would really have an unimaginable impact on all of the fields of science.
 
RFG: Exactly.
 
IR: But the first to appear is the impact on psychology.
 
RFG: The impact on Psychology is the first that we see because I had a fortuitous and very propitious relationship with him from ’78 and he mathematically formulated Holokinesis, in 1986, and I had the luck to be present there for the eight years preceding that and so I also had the luck to start the new psychology, but it was something that had to occur and it was simply that I was there.
That’s it really.
 
IR: Yes, you speak about the only new paradigm in psychology, is that how this is said?
 
RFG: Ah yes, the new, the only one there is, because even though Sigmund Freud made an attempt to link psychology with neurology and neurology with crystallography, we cannot compare this, because this has more depth, as you said very well Ignacio: there is a science before Bohm and another one after Bohm, a psychology before Bohm and another one after David Bohm, and we cannot deny that and it also means that, because of its caliber, we cannot compare it with anything that has gone before.
 
IR: (nodding) So, then it is necessary to mention that there is huge confusion as to whether or not the psychologies are scientific or not. What you are saying is that there are, there have been and there continue to be, many attempts by psychology that are not scientific, true?
 
RFG: We would not call them attempts, but rather that there are very well formulated psychologies that lack the complete conception of time. So, although each one of these 34 psychologies constitute their own universe, they all lack the complete conception of time, that we are contributing and for that reason alone, I say that it is advisable not to mix the language that we use, which takes into consideration the complete conception of time of David Bohm, with those psychologies that do not take into consideration the complete conception of time, and for that reason alone I recommend not mixing the languages, a mixing that could be the source of confusion. What I want is that there be no confusion. I would like there to be no confusion and for that reason I recommend not mixing the languages.
 
IR: Precisely, I would like us to delve into that language of Holokinetic Psychology a bit.
 
RFG: Of course, of course.
 
IR: For example, that they are beginning to speak about three functional neurophysiological precincts, right?
 
RFG: Exactly. Exactly. A, B, C, we say, to make it simple. Yes, precinct C is all the known; memory, time, “I” and precinct B is what we have called Unitary Perception, after having called it “triangular consciousness” and it is the mental precinct in which we move from the unknown to the unknown. One has to differentiate that precinct “B” from precinct “C” which is cyclical, dual, incoherent, unconscious, which is all that we know as memory, time, “I” thought, imagination.
Knowing more about Medicine, which is what a good doctor does, is not the same thing as living only in the precinct of the known, which is the tragedy of humanity.
 
I.R: I would like if we could talk a little bit about the new and more complete understanding, about thought and precinct C.
 
RFG: Yes, thought is a unity. William James had already said it in his way, according to his times and we have had to amplify all of this and we call thought “M.E.T.A. process,” a process that each time we speak, we are, let’s put it this way, agitating this process in all of its forms, like memory, imagination, visceral reaction, emotion, because none of these things is separated from the others. And that is also an important contribution. I say that when we say “mama,” memory, the image and visceral reactions detected by instruments are all mobilized at the same time that we say the word “mama”, for example, and there are also, of course, various emotional reactions, depending on the moment.
Saying “Mama give me rice-pudding” is not the same thing as the soldier who is dying, in the battlefield, who murmurs “mama”.
It is just by saying one word that one verifies the unity of the M.E.T.A. process (which we reduce to the word “thought”).
 
IR: That is, that we cannot separate an emotion such as attachment, anger, fear, envy; from memory, from memories, from imagination, right? Because it seems as though we are accustomed to saying that a person is more “sentimental” or more “intellectual”, we separate imagination, thought and emotion, right?
 
RFG: Of course. Yes, and then we transform that into personal attributes, as if such a thing was real. In reality it is not, these classifications of behavior do not hold up to investigation or research. They are very superficial classifications of behavior for the human being, who has a complexity and a tendency towards paradox in everything, both in his physical structure and in his psychological structure and also in his behavioral expression. In behavior we see human complexity, which resists classification, but which can be very well understood, as we said, as thought, visceral reaction, memory, image and emotion, they are not separate. Then we take a step forward to the understanding of the multiplicity of human behaviors. Possibly much more than seventy percent of these behaviors, are not only learned but appear to be genetic. So even behavior can be the consequence of the gene, not just induced by learning. Fascinating subject.
 
IR: All of this, as I understand, occurs hypnotically in the human being. Right?
 
RFG: Of course, when we say “behavior induced by learning” in reality we are talking about conditioning and the truth is the word conditioning is synonymous with hypnosis. If we understand hypnosis well, and for that we talk about genetic hypnosis, alcoholic hypnosis or musical hypnosis or literary hypnosis or cinematographic hypnosis, verbal hypnosis, which make up, let’s say, the complex hypnotic essence of our behavior.
 
If fear of reality is culturally fostered, and we have movies or literature for children that teach escape from reality, it will not be popular to say that Unitary Perception is the end of imaginary life and the start of true life.
 
IR: Of course, it is good to clarify this, because I feel that there is a popular understanding of the word hypnosis as if it was something that the magicians do.
 
RFG: Exactly (laughing). In the theater.
 
IR: Or merely a therapeutic technique, something that is out there in the distance.
 
RFG: Exactly.
 
IR: When in reality we are saying that all thought is a form of hypnosis.
 
RFG: Yes, it is not just something from the theater, that the magician does, the hypnotist, nor is it only a therapy, but it is also (and this is what is hard for us to see) everything that constitutes thought and behavior formulated by thought. It is what we call the M.E.T.A. process: memory, image, visceral reaction and emotion; they are the product of our hypnosis, a product of our conditioning. To see this is the first step to a new life. A life without hypnosis? I don’t know, maybe not. But a life where hypnosis is, I don’t know if I should say contained by observation or supported by observation, it is going to be a much freer life essentially, a much more joyful life. Yes, less prone to the accidents to which hypnosis leads us.
 
IR: Ok. What happens (it is not that I think this), what happens if I say to you: “But I think what I want?”
 
RFG: If you think what you want, then it is said that you will achieve it. The big secret.
 
IR: (laughs)
 
RFG: Is that what you mean?
 
IR: “I am not hypnotized, I think what I want”.
 
RFG: Ah, I misunderstood. Ah right, of course, that is what we all believe, until we realize that thought is hypnosis, something which Bernheim said, I believe that it was in 1900, more or less, more than one hundred and ten years ago. And that piece of truth is nothing new: that thought is hypnosis and conditioning, and then we believe that we think what we want, because it is a satisfying thought.
 
IR: Of course.
 
RFG: Which does not mean that it is reality or that it is true. Because if we could think what we wanted, there would not be so much anguish and so much anxiety of a psychological nature. And well, as a psychiatrist I have my clinic, ready for all these people who I see every day and who are suffering precisely because they don’t see that they are not the ones who think their thoughts, but the victims of their thoughts, victims of mutual hypnosis, toxic substances, and the genes, that bring those thoughts.
 
IR: Of all the guilt and condemnation that that brings with it.
 
RFG: And then of course, on top of that, the emotional reactions, guilt, shame which are an essential part, unfortunately, of our society, which also increases the pain. The pain which any thought can bring, for example: the obsessive thoughts of an autistic person, of the gambler, of the anorexic girl who does not want to eat because she wants to stay thin. All those are obsessive thoughts determined by a genetic hypnosis which constitute a group that is now called obsessive-compulsive, I am now referring to the DSM-V, that manual which I am studying and which will come out in three years, they speak of an obsessive-compulsive cluster and all of the “grapes” of that-compulsive obsessive cluster: as I already said: anorexia nervosa, gambling, including autism and even homosexuality, also the obsessive compulsive person himself (which are there also), all of these are victims of their thought and victims of a collective thought, which in its turn is genetic and is conditioned.
 
IR: Of course, this reveals that in reality all of us live submerged in a serious disconnection from reality and from understanding how our own thought works, one’s own brain, right?
 
RFG: Of course. There is nothing, or very little, in the culture that makes us conscious of our hypnosis, of our conditioning. On the contrary, they glorify and overvalue, not just thought, but its origins. Hypnosis itself is overvalued and glorified, so we have a society that is practically infrahuman, because of its characteristics of misery, interminable war, corruption in all its aspects, fraud, plunder. We human beings are hypnotized or conditioned to live divided by innumerable invented borders (ideological, religious, national, economic etc.)
 
The world society that is in those conditions has already begun to be infrahuman, and I say infrahuman because it is below the aspirations of building a society in which we can live satisfactorily, at least without wars and misery.
 
Civilization itself is in danger, due to a lack of essential factors, necessary for a civilization to survive. Without compassion, without peace, without true education, there cannot be civilization.
 
IR: Well, I believe we have spoken a bit about the illness. Speak to us a bit about the remedy.
 
RFG: Of the remedy. Unitary Perception.
 
IR: I would like you to tell us in more detail about what this neurophysiological function, which has begun to be talked about, is: Unitary Perception.
 
RFG: It can be contemplated from many points of view. It is the full functioning of the cerebral cortex at the same time, which means that we are aware with the new brain or anterior brain, of what the old brain or posterior brain is doing, which is what? …receiving sensory information: the view, or that is, vision, audition, the cenesthetic sensation, all of these sensations go to the posterior brain and if we are aware of that (which we are not) then the full or almost full functioning of the cerebral cortex is produced which frees an enormous amount of energy which is extremely beneficial. This energy, freed harmoniously to the whole organism, is the source of what is subjectively lived as peace, as joy. Yes.
 
IR: The question which naturally arises is: if there is a new psychology, what is the new psychotherapy, and what is it like?
 
RFG: It is passing from the known, thought, to the unknown, which we call Unitary Perception. Because it is unknown, many fear it, without knowing that it is the true life, the abundant life of peace, of affection, of energy. And that is what Unitary Perception is in a few words: great peace, a great sensation of affection, for everything, an intense life and also a growing sensation of energy, very real, that comes from living like that.
 
IR: And in the clinic, what does the therapist or the patient do with the conflict, is something done with the conflict?
 
RFG: We don’t do anything with the conflict directly, because Unitary Perception frees us from the conflict, without effort.
One does not get to Unitary Perception with effort, in the same way that one does not get to sleep with effort, or wake up from sleep with effort.
 
There is no effort to get to the dining room, to eat, because we are hungry, or to drink a little water because we are thirsty. None of this is done with effort, because they are brain functions and Unitary Perception, because it is a brain function, does not require effort and we can listen to all the sound at the same time, without any effort, without any expectation, and that in itself, is the therapy of the conflict, because peace begins immediately, not gradually. Peace, for many people for the first time in their lives, comes immediately, and then we say: “it is Unitary Perception, which without any effort frees us from the conflict”.
 
We do not need to go into the history of the conflict, the narrative of the conflict, not even know what the conflict is; we do not even need that. It goes that far.
 
IR: Nor any technique.
 
RFG: No technique, because a technique is not needed to listen, and… A technique is not needed to listen!
 
And for that reason, as one does not need a technique to sleep, or to drink or to satisfy hunger, right? One simply eats, without effort. And with Unitary Perception it is the same, in a certain sense, in the sense that I can listen without effort and that that listening to all of the sound at the same time, without expectation, without effort, brings that peace which is the solution to conflict, and for that reason we do not need to know what the conflict is, not even how long it has gone on, in reality, or the history of it.
We do not need to know anything about the past for a person to enter Unitary Perception in this moment, to a life that is truly joyful, peaceful, energetic, intense. Someone said to me: “It is like Paul said: “The true and abundant life” and I had to tell them yes, that that is how I see it. Yes.
 
IR: So we are saying that, in the same way that naturally nothing external is needed, no product of thought, no technique for that part of health which is sleeping, -right? Neither does one need a psychological technique for that part of the health which is absence of psychological conflict, there just has to be the restoration of that neurological function, Unitary Perception. True?
 
RFG: Exactly, which appears to have been lost for a long period of time, for reasons that escape us, but luckily it has been recovered in the 20th century and we are involved in the task of teaching it.
A task which, as it is a task of pioneers, is not easy, but I believe that it is starting to be effective, because of the fact that there are a greater number of people who want to be professors of this teaching of Holokinetic Psychology and Unitary Perception. And well, practically all over the world we have teachers interested in teaching this, and all the time more people interested in learning it. I see that with great satisfaction because I think that it could be very, very favorable for individual and social harmony and even for social development, without doubt.
 
IR: What happens in the daily life of a person who is reincorporating this lost neurophysiological function?
 
RFG: Well, one discovers a life that we could call true, compared with the previous, because it is not merely imaginary, so it is more intense, because it is more peaceful, it is more joyful and then, everything is new. Everything is new and what was done yesterday, can be done again today, but now it is new, simply because there is a new way of perceiving. That same thing that was done yesterday is now new, and that is the beauty of Unitary Perception, it refreshes life, it intensifies it, it makes it joyful. This is something tremendous, difficult to convey because, it seems incredible, it seems… as if you wanted to sell a product. But we are doing something different; we are saying what really happens when someone takes Unitary Perception seriously.
 
IR: Okay, so we know that it is not a technique, it is not a philosophy of life, it is not an ideology, but a function of the body like sleeping, like digestion. Are there illnesses that can make this function -Unitary Perception- difficult or impede it?
 
RFG: Undeniably yes, but there are not many. For example mental retardation impedes the understanding of this fact; one cannot teach this to a mentally retarded person or to a schizophrenic person, because he is incoherent, or to a person with serious depression, because he has no energy, whatever type of depression it might be: unipolar or bipolar, and an adult with attention deficit is going to have difficulties. But leaving aside those individuals, it is for everyone. Which means that it is for 96% of humanity. Yes, it is for everyone, leaving aside the exceptions that have been mentioned. Yes.
 
IR: In addition to that, we know that you have been talking for more than 30 years, right? You have been talking for more than 30 years, right?
 
RFG: I have been speaking about Unitary Perception for more than 30 years, all over the planet.
 
IR: Yes.
 
RFG: All over the world.
 
IR: And it seems that there are very few people who are understanding or who have understood. It seems as if that there was something in our conditioning that makes it difficult to understand Unitary Perception, or to take it seriously, as a way of life.
 
RFG: Yes. Yes.
 
Interview of Rubén Feldman González by Ignacio Rodriguez What is it?
 
RFG: Everything that I have said, for example, the incoherence of schizophrenia has been generalized even in the way we speak. Incoherent books that are bestsellers. What can I say, the capacity to learn that a person with a high intelligence quotient has is not used, as if there was a psychological prostration. Or, we do not emphasize this matter of Unitary Perception because we do not know the peace of Unitary Perception. Truly we do not know it; we simply assume it because someone can tell us about it.
Few people attempt to verify the fact of Unitary Perception and its multiple benefits.
 
All this, which is unfortunate, is doubtlessly occurring. But there is also a very big increase in the number of people who are taking it seriously. Above all in the last three years there has been a very big increase and it can be noticed for example in the number of professors who graduate each year. For the first time last year, in the International Congress of the International Academy of Sciences, of Holokinetic Psychology, eight professors graduated, compared to one or two in previous years. That means that yes, one can see that there is more interest. But it is also certain that society is getting more difficult as regards having access to a teaching that appears to offer nothing, to people who want nothing, because they feel that all the elements of support that they had are disappearing: home, school, the father’s work, the maternal attitude of the mother, the extended family, the working father’s vacations, all of this appears to be disappearing. So the individuals, above all the young, feel lost and then feel that they have nothing to offer to society and get lost in crime or some other senseless activity, or they simply get lost in not wanting to listen. And nothing interests them except some sensual pleasure and money.
 
I believe that it has a lot to do with what is happening at the psychosocial level all over the world: the devastating economic crisis, accompanied by a series of psychological and epidemiological crises and a growing war in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, etc. The whole world is suffering, although silently, as well as the young, we are not talking about the young who are suffering those wars in those countries, but the young all over the world, who are witnesses of these acts, sense either consciously or unconsciously, that flavor of desolation, of abandonment, which I believe that every intelligent person could have when faced with the present world situation.
So of course, what we are offering appears not to make any sense. “Don’t bother me”. Some of that also, I believe, on top of what I said previously.
 
IR: That has a name, right?
 
RFG: Yes a psychological prostration or “metadepression” I call it.
 
IR: Metadepression.
 
RFG: I travel all over the planet and I have seen metadepression everywhere. It manifests with irritability and disinterest in everything.
The love for excellence is lost, of doing what we have to do, excellently.
A metadepression, which is not a depression, in which sleep is lost, but a depression that does not require medication, but in which the person loses even the desire to live and the desire to do very simple and common things, that any sane person could have.
 
IR: Added to this disconnection with the nature of thought, actually there appears to be a disconnection with reality in general, which makes many people deny that things are so bad, right? Many people tell us that everything is fine.
 
RFG: Ah of course! Of course. The craze of positive thinking, which is the craze of the ostrich that hides its head in the sand so as not to see the hunter. (laughing) I believe that positive thought does not do us any good in a situation that is so precarious for humanity in all, all its activities. Even science is impoverished by a lack of support in the majority of countries. Let alone education, the acquisitions for workers in the 20th century, which were what? A small annual vacation of 15 days, or a pension, right?, which is a small and precarious relief for old age. All of this is being lost and then I do not believe that one can say that everything is okay, when things as bad as these are occurring, in front of our noses, so I say: “no, not everything is okay”. We have to pay attention to all of that which we are losing, after having acquired it with a lot, a lot of bloodshed in many cases and a lot of desperation in others, so I say: “no, not everything is okay”. I think that we have to pay attention to education for everyone, otherwise we are not going to have anything at all, we are not going to have a civilization. We have to pay attention to all those supports that a child needs for growing up: his family, his father, his mother, school, his community, that has to maintain his integrity, his cohesion, his communications, his capacity to socialize and to be supportive. The school with the home, the home with the father’s work, the home with what his mother could be doing in or outside of the home. All of those basic elements of life are breaking down. So we shouldn’t be surprised that suicide, alcoholism and drug addiction among the young has increased, and also that there is an increase in social disorder almost to the point of chaos.
There are big countries with two presidents, one elected and another who denounces the electoral fraud.
Yes, and all of this should not surprise us, when we see the decline in education, of the family, the end of the basic things of civilization, of the health care that a government has to have for its people etc., etc. All of this is collapsing and we do not have to be so indifferent when faced with these facts, because they are worrying; without that, humanity will cease to live in a civilization and will start to live once again in something very much like barbarity.
 
IR: (Nods in assent)
 
RFG: Yes, very much like barbarity.
 
IR: So when one understands (it seems to me, or rather I see it), when one understands the value of Unitary Perception, in terms of individual and social regeneration, the urgency is seen, the urgency for it to be known and disseminated…
 
RFG: Of course.
 
IR: …and we see that disseminating Unitary Perception is not so easy, right?
 
RFG: Ah no, It is not easy at all Ignacio.
There is the old resistance to the new and also one has to convey information that requires study.
 
IR: Because it has been more than thirty years that you have been speaking not of something known, but of something unknown, which forms part of a scientific revolution, which from history we know can take a while to penetrate into the culture, right?
 
RFG: Copernicus: almost 400 years in order to be accepted by the University… 400 years! I mean, it is surprising, right? When one does the historical calculations in years, how could something like that have happened? That the work of Copernicus, which was a great scientific revolution, the introduction of Copernicus to the culture could have taken place so slowly… and it gives one the impression that the same thing could happen with this, but that of course, would be tragic, because I believe that there is not much time left before we reach a point of no return in the ecological, military, epidemiological areas, in those basic areas. We could reach a point of no return, above all in the ecological area. Economically we already know that there is a crisis all over the planet, we could even call it mortal and that it could last for more than a generation, which in itself is a tragedy, but also, at the same time, there is a serious ecological problem, which is not being dealt with in cooperation and sensibly: epidemics are being born, old epidemics like tuberculosis are getting worse. And it appears that in all areas of human activity there is a collapse. So, we have to, not get preoccupied, but occupy ourselves with all of this and I think that Unitary Perception is going to help us. Why? Precisely because Unitary Perception is the complete functioning of the cerebral cortex and for sure such an important element of neurophysiology is going to collaborate in the solution of all of these problems.
 
I think, for example, that without peace, everything that we do is going to be more disastrous and I do not believe that peace will come to us truly –not as an idea, but to be truly in peace, without Unitary Perception, I do not believe that it is possible.
 
So for that reason, with Unitary Perception and the peace that it brings us, yes I do believe that we are going to be able to deal more efficiently with all of these serious and numerous human problems, not in a bloody revolutionary way, but in a non-bloody way, in a peaceful way, in a sensible and scientific way, all human problems can be solved in a relatively short period of time. And when I say this, I mean in months, we do not need years to solve mankind problems, they can be solved in months. With adequate means and consensus that is above all scientific, economic and psychosocial, which appear at the moment to be very far off, but I insist that if we contemplate the problems that are bothering us, we can accelerate this scientific, economic and psychosocial consensus to deal with these problems sensibly. And solve them for good in a relatively short period of time.
 
IR: Only with a profound psychological change, right?
 
RFG: Yes, which is Unitary Perception.
 
IR: Where the force of hypnosis ends…
 
RFG: Ah, yes…
 
IR: …where the stupidity ends, right? Of…
 
RFG: Hypnosis and voluntary stupidity end…
 
IR: The stupidity of the search for profit, right?
 
RFG: For example the search for interminable profit.
Now that I am in Buenos Aires, I am seeing again the infamous nightclub, the famous boliche (as it is called in Buenos Aires), the Mexican antro which is no more than a symbol of stupidity, which is practically like seeing how the young people enter factories of alcoholism, to consume alcohol, and I say: “Good heavens, do the parents not care that their children are going to a factory of alcoholism?”
 
IR: On the contrary, it is expected.
 
RFG: It is what is expected, right? Parents expect that their sons and daughters to go! Well, it appears tragic to me, absolutely tragic, because alcoholism is something that is going to happen much more easily, if we keep this type of entertainment, with no type of regulation, it appears catastrophic to me really. And that is no more than an example, because the sale of drugs flourishes there, venereal diseases flourish, not only alcoholism which in itself is a tragedy. So, could society not offer its young people different forms of entertainment? In the form of sports, in the form of games, in the form of dancing, that are of a more healthy nature, whatever it is that a young person, male or female could do, could it not be done more sensibly? I think that definitely yes, if we leave profit in its place and we pay more caring and devoted attention to the young people, who are going to inherit a society whose nature depends to a large extent on us; we made it and we can remake it. Yes, and we can remake it with this psychological change of Unitary Perception, with the peace that it brings and with the scientific elements that already exist, we have all the elements to make the necessary society, the viable society, the sane society for these young people who are, honestly, I believe, degenerating. Yes.
 
IR: Rubén, in the midst of this rampant collapse in all fields, how do you see the dissemination of Holokinetic Psychology and its attempt to enter the University in a serious way and what problems, what obstacles present themselves?
 
RFG: Problems are going to be inevitable, like in any undertaking…any new undertaking has problems, but I have a lot of hope and a lot of optimism, because in Mexico, where we are working in the Center for Holokinetic Psychology I am seeing that despite the fact that there are many legal twists and turns in order to be able to enter the culture with a masters degree, for example, we are on the verge of achieving it. I say yes, that one can note a kind of small effervescence in a pioneering movement, and that gives me great hope, that it will continue with that same rhythm, almost accelerated compared to the rhythm that I lived as initiator of this psychology, together with Bohm; the speed of the events is almost unexpected. So yes, I am optimistic with regards to the dissemination of Holokinetic Psychology because I see people like you, a man of 22 years of age who is already a professor of the International Academy of Sciences in Holokinetic Psychology and other professors whom you know, who are not as young as you but…. I believe that you are the youngest of the professors, other professors who are less than 30 years of age, and so I see a future, I see possibility, I see hope, for the movement itself of Holokinetic Psychology and for that reason I also have hope for the reconstitution or restoration of planetary human society, I am not only referring to Argentina. I also see the possibility for the restoration of planetary human society.
And well, this is what we are doing and we are going to do continually, peacefully, to help bring about this restoration.

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